Here is the second part of the interview with Faouzi Skali, conducted by Le Matin du Sahara et du Maghreb in March 2000, on the occasion of the Fez colloquium. In it he discusses spiritual states, the revivification of the paths (the tajdid), and what distinguishes a living path. Reproduced as part of our press archives devoted to the era of Sidi Hamza (may Allah sanctify his Secret).
In yesterday’s edition, we published the first part of the interview that Mr Faouzi Skali, doctor in anthropology, ethnology and religious studies, gave us on Sufism on the occasion of the colloquium to be held in Fez tomorrow, Saturday, on the theme: “Sufism in contemporary society”. In this second part, which we publish today, Mr Faouzi Skali takes stock of the Sufi tariqa and the spiritual paths of Islam.
What do you say to those who deny that the hals, the hadra and ecstatic dances conform to the Sunna?
There are errors of historical perspective that are classic in this field. For if one referred, in the formal sense, strictly and solely to what existed in the time of the Prophet ﷺ, none of the other sciences should exist: the science of hadith should not exist, since it came only later. The science of Qur’anic exegesis came later. Arabic grammar, which was moreover developed above all by non-Arabs, came later. Even fiqh (jurisprudence), which has evolved and must keep evolving through time and take many forms in response to the differing demands of each society and each age. That is why, simultaneously and in the same period, there were schools of fiqh, all recognised as equally valid although different: the Maliki rite, the Hanbali rite, the Hanafi rite, the Shafi’i rite.
Although these schools do not resolve problems in the same way, they recognise one another as equally valid. This evolution, given that the Revelation itself was revealed according to circumstances (Asbâb Al Nouzoul), which takes nothing away from its sacredness or from the eternity of the divine Word, is a clear sign. There is a share of social and historical contingency that the “pedagogy” of the Revelation teaches us.
As for “spiritual states” (hals), when the Prophet ﷺ was at prayer, it is reported that his companions heard a sound in his chest, like “a pot on the boil”, and when he received the Revelation, there was something like “the humming of a swarm of bees”. Of course, the Revelation is specific to the Prophet, but the Prophet’s prayer was lived with such inner intensity as to give rise to this “boiling”, which, although contained, was heard by those standing behind the Prophet. There were forms of hals, for example when the Prophet ﷺ said to Sidna Jaffar Ibn Abi Tâlib (his cousin): “you resemble me in my conduct and my appearance”. Jaffar was so happy at this that he began to dance for joy on one foot. One must understand the effect that the words of the Prophet ﷺ had on each of his companions, so much so that, right after the death of the Prophet ﷺ, many of his companions lived simply on the fact that one day he had said such and such a word to them, which had become spiritual nourishment and whose flame they kept alive with fervour. All these spiritual experiences are realities of the time of the Prophet ﷺ.
It was said of Abou Bakr that he had something like two lines on his cheeks, so much did he weep. That too is a form of “hal” (spiritual states). This experience of the heart is something extremely present and important in the time of the Prophet ﷺ. However, in periods of inner “drought”, Islam was made into something purely formal and outward (which was far from the spirit of the Prophet), and this was denounced by great scholars such as Ghazali, and many others.
Teachings are put in place to awaken this heart, to revivify it once again. That is the meaning of the title of Ghazali’s book “The Revival of the Religious Sciences”, that is to say the revivification of the heart of Religion. At that point, through these practices, the heart responds in a certain way, hence the hadra, the ecstatic states and so on, which may sometimes surprise in an age that has lost this dimension, but which truly constitute the deepest and most important dimension of religion, without which religion could be nothing more than one formal system among others and would lose its spiritual dimension.
Among the hadiths that have stressed this dimension, let us cite: “God does not look at your forms or your wealth, but He looks at your hearts and your deeds”, or again: “There is in the body a piece of flesh… (which symbolises the heart). If this piece of flesh is sound, the whole body is sound. If it is not sound, the whole body is unsound.” And certain hadiths indicate that times will come when many people will be seen praying in the most formal and correct way possible, but that in reality none of it will in any way accord with true spirituality.
That is why Sufism today is not simply something marginal to be reflected upon: it truly constitutes the heart of the tradition of Islam. And when it is a matter of “returning” to Islam, as one often hears, it is not a matter of leaping over history or turning back time (which is obviously impossible and does not correspond to the “Sunna” of God, to the rules that God has established…). It is a matter of returning to the heart of this tradition, from which it is lived in its true meaning and authenticity.
Are all the tariqa that call themselves Sufi really so?
In the Sufi paths, there happens what happens to everything. Ultimately, Islam came because God considered that there had been a certain deviation brought about by men. The Sufi paths are subject to the same rules: one may say that after a certain time, when they lose their original vitality, they can be led astray, diverted from their meaning. But that does not mean that the path itself is called into question intrinsically. It is the law of a certain necessary decline of everything that exists in this world. For it to keep its original meaning, it must be brought up to date, revivified. That is what the spiritual guides of the Sufi paths do, who come from time to time to bring this teaching up to date. This is what is called “the Tajdid”. There is a hadith that says that “in every cycle, someone will come to revivify and renew the matters of this religion”. It is of course not a question of renewing the arcana, since the Sunna is inviolable and relevant whatever the age, but one renews the spirit of the religion, spirituality. This is indeed something that is lost all too easily, because it is a question of awareness, which one may have or not.
To be able to rekindle this awareness, one must have a teacher who can do it. For this teaching to have this effect, it must be given by someone who is himself within this spirituality. Hence the importance and the role of spiritual teachings throughout the history of Islam. Many spiritual figures who played a major role can be cited: Abdelkader Jilani, Abdessalam Bnou Machich, Abou Hassan Shadili, Ahmed Tijani, Moulay Al Arbi Ad Darqawi, Ibn Arabî, Rumî, and many others… In the end, this is how the truth and authenticity of a spiritual teaching come about, and this is what differentiates one path from another. To what extent is a given path living, present, fully effective spiritually, able to communicate a genuine spiritual teaching? The difference between paths is not formal: it is a difference in the degree of vitality.
There are therefore paths which, although they lose the presence of the spiritual teachings that founded them, continue to maintain themselves within a certain dimension that remains one of “spiritual culture”. These are what are called the paths of “tabarouk”. And there are the paths that have this dimension of presence and relevance, entirely real at a given moment, and that are communicated through a living spiritual teacher and teaching. These are what are called the paths of initiation and spiritual education.
Whatever the case, Sufism pervades, and has pervaded, the general climate of the various societies and cultures of Islamic civilisation. Today, of course, it takes forms that are not those of the past, but that are no less bound to its tradition. It is a tradition brought up to date and living.
What are the great and genuine spiritual paths of Islam in our time, in Morocco and throughout the world?
I can speak only of my own experience: I know that at present the Boutchichiya Kadiriya Way gives teaching both in Morocco and in the world. It is recognised internationally as one of the great paths. And there has been no example throughout history of a path that reached this degree of spread and recognition and was not subsequently regarded as one of the great moments of Sufism. I believe that this consensus around a path is a decisive element in its recognition and its role.
Source: “L’expérience spirituelle” (2), Le Matin du Sahara et du Maghreb (3 March 2000, No. 10.634), interview with Faouzi Skali. Reproduced as part of the boutchichiya.fr press archives, the era of Sidi Hamza.
